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Jackie Kinder is a an Attorney and Principal at Watters, Wolf, Bub, and Hansmann. She’s a trial lawyer with a track record of success defending individuals and corporations in complex personal injury lawsuits.
She talks to Cynthia about the path to her legal career, which started quite early. She details her many experiences in going to trial, navigating single-motherhood as a top performing professional, and her philosophy on success.
1 – Introduction 00:23
2 – Current Role 01:05
3 – How did you become an attorney 03:05
4 – Why so few women lawyers 06:20
5 – Difference between corporate law and litigation 07:49
6 – Do you think a desire to litigate is innate 13:11
7 – Importance of a supportive partner at home 17:03
8 – What did you do to get the support you needed 18:16
9 – How do we ask for the help we need 21:10
10 – Women always trying to do everything 23:19
11 – Knowing limitations 25:28
12 – Not having to drive to the office 29:21
13 – Were there challenges to navigate as a female? 30:00
14 – How about asking questions to male client 35:36
15 – The psychology of when to be more aggressive on examination 36:50
16 – What are some challenges you faced as a female leader 38:54
17 – Being more approachable 43:30
18 – How do you train your brain to be compassionate 46:38
19 – How did you figure out you wanted to be a litigator? 50:30
20 – Big case that stands out 56:29
21 – Who were some of your great mentors or advisors 1:01:39
22 – How did you learn to adapt as a female in those roles 1:05:14
23 – What it’s like to help young females coming up 1:06:55
24 – What’s it like to become partner at a big firm? 1:07:53
25 – How did the firm breakup come about for you 1:11:03
26 – Last words, put this at the end 1:14:18
27 – Who do you help? 1:15:13
28 – Ending again 1:16:36
Content Notice
This podcast and all She Lift Project content represents the opinions of Cynthia Kirkpatrick and her guests. The content here is for informational purposes only, and should not be taken as professional advice – financial, legal, medical, or otherwise.
Views and opinions expressed in the podcast and across all She Lift Project media channels are our own and do not represent that of our places of work. While we make every effort to ensure that the information we are sharing is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.
“But sometimes when you prove yourself and people don’t see your value, you need to remove yourself, which is what I did. And was it hard? Yes. Was the pay cut difficult? Yes. That first year was challenging. But I knew where I wanted to go and I knew I wasn’t going to get there by staying.”
“And I always say creativity dies in the courtroom, and I love creativity in cases. And I love people having the ability to have the power to decide what their parenting plan looks like, what their settlement’s going to look like. Judges don’t get that much say. They kind of have boxes they have to stay within.”
“I got to a point in Frank’s office where I realized there was kind of a ceiling. People that I had come in after me, I was training, were now moving up. And my ego got to the best of me. This is the dream job. Like, what happens after Frank Gehry? What could possibly be next after that?”
We’re catalysts for better conversation. And we know at Filament that the teams that we work with are not looking for the right answer, because there’s no such thing as the right answer. There is the next best answer to the questions that we’re asking.
“Research actually shows when there’s this lack of trust in a relationship, this lack of connection, the same part of our brain that processes physical pain gets activated when there’s an emotional pain. Right? And so if I’m feeling rejected or I’m feeling like I’m not part of the team or I’m not valued in any way, that part of our brain activates and says, like, pain. And so if you think about it in that way, think about the number of people who are walking around your office every day in pain.”
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